Joakim Soria has now pitched five times for the Pirates since being acquired from the Tigers: July 31, and the 2nd, 5th, 7th and 8th of this month.
Tony Watson and Mark Melancon’s past five appearances: July 31, and the 2nd, 5th, 7th and 8th of this month.
Coincidence?
“Ha! Not a chance!” Clint Hurdle was telling me after his team’s 6-5 victory over the Dodgers Saturday night at PNC Park. “Other than the one time we needed to use Soria because Melancon was ejected, they’re going right in a row, just like that.”
Meaning 7-8-9.
Meaning the man is only beginning to realize every manager’s dream of navigating through six innings, then pressing the auto-pilot button.
“Well, it certainly makes things easier, and that’s absolutely why we went out and got Soria,” he said. “But at the same time, you’ve got to be aware that you can’t go with those three like that all the time because you’ll need to spread it out a bit.”
For example, I asked, now that this 7-8-9 sequence played out in taking the first two games of this series with the Dodgers, who might be unavailable for the sweep attempt Sunday?
“That’s what we’ll be discussing. We aren’t sure yet.”
What is sure is that the Pirates’ back-end big boys are enjoying this:
Melancon wasn’t at his sharpest, to be kind, conceding a run, two hits, a walk and a couple of seriously stung lineouts. But he ramped up that cutter to 92 mph to cap his big-league-best 35th save, the 33rd in a row. And, lest anyone fret over lost fingernails in the process, the proper context shows the run he allowed was just the third in the past 45 appearances.
Three runs, 45 appearances!
“Honestly, I’m just having fun,” Melancon said. “A game like this, a situation like this, with everybody so into it … that’s fun, man. It is.”
Soria, the newcomer, made clear he’s having fun, too, even though he went from closer in Detroit to a notch below setup man.
“I just want to win,” Soria said. “That’s why I’m here. If I take the ball in the seventh inning and we have these other great pitchers here … let’s just win.”
Watson summed up the sentiment best: “We feel like we’ve got three closers. Remember that game Mark got tossed and Soria came in? It was like nothing had changed.”
• Seriously good show by Joe Blanton, too: His three zeroes settled the game after Francisco Liriano had to be pulled following the third. He allowed two hits and a walk while fanning three.
“MVP of the night,” as Melancon called Blanton.
“Just like Kansas City,” Francisco Cervelli said, referring to when Blanton was pitching for the Royals and blanked the Pirates over three innings last month at Kauffman Stadium. “Located his fastball. Put it right where he wanted.”
“That’s why we got him,” Hurdle said.
Say what you will of management’s Vance Worley mess, but Blanton might turn out to be a find. In 13 relief appearances this season, including two with the Pirates now, he has a 2.57 ERA. Now, ERA isn’t much of a statistic for relievers, but I’ll still make an exception for long men because they’re essentially pitching mini-starts.
• Liriano could whoop it up for a bit when he sliced his first career home run inside the left foul pole, a three-run shot in the second that briefly spotted the Pirates a 4-2 lead, but it didn’t last: He was out after an exasperating, erratic three innings — four runs, seven hits, two walks — that saw him misfire on 37 of his 79 pitches.
Most ominous, about a minute before Kike Hernandez launched a two-run home run off Liriano in the third, he was visited on the mound by athletic trainer Todd Tomczyk.
It wasn’t clear afterward if the two events were related. First, Hurdle said that Liriano wasn’t lifted because of any injury. A few minutes later, Liriano confirmed he could have continued pitching but acknowledged a ‘little thing’ in his upper right chest, near the armpit.
Could he have been hurt on that mighty swing?
He laughed and replied, “No, no way.”
It should be noted that Liriano was bumped up a day in the rotation, in large part because J.A. Happ has been terrible and isn’t being trusted to pitch in St. Louis this week. It’s impossible to say how much of a role the bump-up plays, but it obviously underscores yet another reason it’s important not to downgrade a position at the trading deadline.
• Hurdle took the rare step of giving a nod to the Pirates’ longtime video coordinator, Kevin Roach, for his part in helping the team win three replay challenges.
“He had a heck of a game,” Hurdle said.
I mentioned to Roach that the manager had praised him in his postgame press conference and, after his disbelief dissolved, he fairly blushed: “You get lucky sometimes.”
• From the there-are-two-teams-out-there department, we might not see a more impressive display of raw baseball beauty than Yasiel Puigthrowing outGregory Polanco on a force play at second base in the first inning.
To boot, Polanco really didn’t do anything wrong. He had to hold up to see if Starling Marte’s ball would drop in front of Puig, which it did. If it doesn’t drop, of course, Puig is capable of gunning him down at first.
“He’s amazing,” Polanco said of Puig. “Great player.”
Moms and dads, always encourage your kids to watch the opponent, too. Those other guys are very much included in the ticket price.
Yes, he should have slid. But he still would have been out.
Carl
8-8-2015, 10:19 pm
The next time a slide gets you to a base faster than a regular stride will be the first. It's not like sliding launches you forward.
Justin
8-8-2015, 10:42 pm
You aren't running through the base, Carl. Sliding lets you run all out and then stop faster than just running and stopping on a base. Simple physics.
cheese in socal
8-8-2015, 10:49 pm
he limped into that bag like he limped off the field after falling in Chicago. no way should he have been thrown out...mistake or not, puig's arm or not...
portrub
8-8-2015, 11:26 pm
Exactly Justin! Then your feet stop you while the rest of your body's momentum elevates your torso into a standing position all without having to slow down running at all. That's one reason you slide. Also the reason sliding into first base is ineffective. You can run through first. You can't at second or third.
bigchinook
8-8-2015, 11:32 pm
Agree, Polanco's hustle and or awareness has to be questioned on that play. Happy for the win, worried about the continued base running gaffes.
unipress_55b7b48ae34e7
8-9-2015, 12:17 am
Sliding has nothing to do with hustle. N O T H I N G....
Kragbax
8-9-2015, 8:05 am
Polanco should have slid. You run through first base because you can, so you don't slow down. Sliding into first is a mistake because you show down as soon as you hit the ground. Physics.
You can't run through second without heading to third or being tagged out. Going in standing up means you are slowing yourself down. You'll arrive much faster by running hard and sliding than slowing yourself down. Physics.
You don't just slide to avoid the tag, though that helps, it's to get you into point B AND STOP as quickly as possible. Anyone who's played or coached knows this.
Perhaps Polanco didn't expect the throw? And indeed Puig has a fantastic arm.
I'm not being negative, but I'd hope rather than overcoming themselves every game (errors, gaffes, blunders) they'd start to play better fundamentally. I won't say it's impossible but I'd be surprised if a championship team can continue to win while making so many mistakes. At some point it will cost some games.
Bubba Banjo
8-8-2015, 9:52 pm
Sorry DK... after-game after-glow mist still be high. Palanco just didnt hustle and slide. Simple Little League hustle was all that was needed. But thats OK the kid is coming along. Good game by all. 2 great wins. Keep it going boys! Lets go Bucs!! Long way to go to catch the Cards.
I can do without the childish insult. And I robustly disagree regarding Polanco. Not sliding wasn't a hustle issue. It was a strange play. If you want to criticize for anything, it's being momentarily confused.
portrub
8-8-2015, 10:45 pm
Bob Walk couldn't believe Polanco didn't slide. I'm just saying. That's what he said. Lol
portrub
8-8-2015, 10:50 pm
I think it was a combination of being confused and not fundamentally sliding once he decided where he was going. Seems as if people take things too personal here. Just comments.
cherokee23
8-8-2015, 11:26 pm
Puig made a great play, but that doesn't mean Polanco didn't also make a mistake. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
rokinray
8-8-2015, 11:31 pm
Walk contradicts himself with his comments tonight. Last week he said if sliding was the fastest way to get somewhere that Olympic sprinters would be diving for the line. Now he knocks a guy for not sliding. You hate to see an out happen on what looked like a sure hit but Puig had his mind made up to let the ball hit, barehanding on the hop and firing a strike to second. If you recall in Friday's game his strong throw to the infield resulted in Palanco getting picked off getting back to first. There was also a play in that game, where with guys on first and second a single to right did not score the run as the runner held at third. That's the type of outfield play we haven't seen from anyone since 1972.
VABurgher
8-8-2015, 11:52 pm
Sliding doesn't get you there faster it just makes it harder for the defender to tag a runner and easier to stop on the base without running by. This is why you don't slide into first because running all out is faster but you can't overrun second.
Lamar valley pack
8-8-2015, 11:55 pm
The track reference as an analogy for not sliding is not on point because in track the runner does not have to stop at the finish line. The base runner going to second or third has to run fast and then stop fast. How is that best accomplished sliding or not sliding?
unipress_55b7b48ae34e7
8-9-2015, 12:16 am
The only thing Bob Walk knows about running bases is that he only did it a handful of times per season.
cmat0829
8-9-2015, 3:23 am
I think DK is right to spotlight the great play by Puig vs the inevitable picking on Polanco that no doubt will be done In the comments. Walk's point is that Polanco didn't seem to run all out to 2nd as he'd need to slide to stop at the base. .....no way to run fast as you can standing up and stop at the bag. That's all.
Bubba Banjo
8-9-2015, 11:36 am
No insult intended DK. I just like to have fun man. I was pretty pumped myself after that one! Gotta smile more brutha. Actually I do agree with you. Palanco is a big kid in my view and he was confused. He just needs "coached up" there man. I do disagree though. It was hustle. Its that "vet" knowledge of when to commit and go all out.
kensnits
8-9-2015, 11:42 am
Could it have been that Rollins decoyed Polanco into thinking there was not going to be a throw?
Paul
8-8-2015, 9:53 pm
Rather than a set 7, 8, and 9 with the back-end relievers, I'd much rather see Hughs/Caminero/Bastardo handle the 7th when the starters can't so that we're more likely to have a couple of those three left for the 8th and 9th of the next game.
Right, the 3 can't pitch every game. That is one reason they need the starters to step up and go 7 or 8, so they only need 1 or 2 of the 3 so they make sure at least one or even 2 are available the next game. For example, Jeff Locke flew past Ross Ohlendorf for the team record of most starts without a complete game at 82. Ohlendorf had 64 and Gerrit Cole is close to that as Friday night was his 63rd start without a complete game.
A blow out by the PBC would help things too, a laugher here and there would do wonders. Totally agree with you though and what you are saying
Stephen Petrilli
8-8-2015, 10:53 pm
Yeah, a laugher against another division leader. Great.
Biz
8-8-2015, 11:01 pm
There is about 1/3 of the season left ;-)
VABurgher
8-8-2015, 11:35 pm
Complete games are going the way of the dinosaur with pitch counts and larger bullpens records like that are meaningless it's just the evolution of the game.
Biz
8-8-2015, 11:51 pm
Complete games are one thing, getting 7+ out of starters is not ;-)
Cobra39
8-8-2015, 10:39 pm
I can't believe people are bickering after a win. These are two quality wins against a fellow contender. Be happy, people!
What else do you expect from Pirate fans? The yinzers are never satisfied and by the way Bob Nutting is cheap, and doesn't care about winning and Payroll is only $100 M and.... ;-)
unipress_5599a4c544399
8-9-2015, 12:26 am
Well, going in to the final stretch with two starters and three question marks makes for a better storybook
A. Lane
8-9-2015, 12:20 pm
This team has lost 40% of its games, someone has to hold them accountable.
Justin
8-8-2015, 10:40 pm
Polanco should have slid. That's what he did wrong. It's another gaffe on the bases by him if you ask me. Still won so hopefully he learned.
I agree..he saw there was a play on him..have to slide..great play by defender
Tony Chiu
8-8-2015, 11:42 pm
Yo! You slide to avoid a tag. Polanco was out on a force play, so why slide?.
unipress_5599a4c544399
8-9-2015, 12:24 am
He slows down when he goes in standing up, a hard slide may have made it closer. But Puig is a beast.....like the Cobra
LonelyLibertarian
8-9-2015, 12:24 pm
I'd like to see some actual data on which is quicker - running to the bag or sliding. I hate it when guys who have been playing baseball all their lives slide into first base - yes I know you are running THROUGH the bag at first - and to the bag at second. I don't consider his choice a gaffe - wish folks would just chill and watch a great young player grow into a star. If you want to bitch - bitch about our subpar 2nd baseman [17th in NL and CF [14th] defensively.
A. Lane
8-9-2015, 1:41 pm
Lonely so, don't criticize the players you like, only the ones you don't?
LonelyLibertarian
8-9-2015, 5:38 pm
A Lane -
I DO hold veterans to a different standard based on FACTS.
And I supported my criticism of Cutch and Walker with FACTS.
It was not that long ago fans on DK's blog and elsewhere wanted to send Marte down to Indy because of his "attitude" and struggles both in the field and at the plate. These are young men - they do not come to the majors fully developed in most cases - yes there are exceptions - but they are exceptions - you get ONE Mike Trout every 10 years or so if you are lucky. Look at Puig - yes he made a great play - but he has struggled for long stretches these last year or so - and I recall many wanted to crown him as the best player in baseball part way through his first year.
I'd actually like to see Hughes get a day off today - need him fresh for St :Louis.
cheese in socal
8-8-2015, 10:51 pm
re: melancon. he could save 55 straight games and I would still be more comfortable with Watson pitching the 9th inning of the wild card game or game 7 of the world series. to me, melancon is doug drabek/stan belinda waiting to happen.
I was thinking the same thing. I mean, geez, a WHIP of 1, and only giving up 3 runs in last 45 appearances...how can anyone be expected to do better than that?
I think some people are still stuck on that low velocity at the start of the year.
Matt the Stat
8-9-2015, 12:02 am
I recall that Stan Belinda was a very erratic reliever. Melancon might not throw super fastballs but the dude does what he has to do to get outs. That is the bottom line. Get outs and slam the door on the opposition.
unipress_5599a4c544399
8-9-2015, 12:13 am
I am okay with Melancon but I am always nervous and I wish I had more faith because since early April he gets outs when they are needed. But man, batters always seem to drill the ball hard.
Biz
8-9-2015, 12:32 am
We hear about closers these days and all we hear is smoke, blow em away, right? Teke had that funky wind-up delivery, ElRoy had the fork ball, Dave Guisti had the palmball.
IMO Melancon knows how to be a closer, that's what counts and makes all the difference
PucknutZ
8-9-2015, 6:18 am
Melancon's job yesterday was to get 3 outs and give up less than 2 runs.
Done and done.
Bubba Banjo
8-9-2015, 12:41 pm
I get what you mean. A shutdown closer is normally a Fire Breathing Godzilla of an arm. But I dont know if I have ever seen a man more focused and calculating than Melancon. His style isnt knock out blow. He is a counter puncher. His wins are hard to argue. Even though they are nail biters.
Biz
8-8-2015, 10:56 pm
The way Polanco slides, he might have overslid the bag anyways.
Was there any reason why Clint or the front office wasn't content with Hughes as the 7th-inning man? There's always room to improve the bullpen, but to cement Soria in Hughes's place seemed a little unnecessary.
Hughes hasn't been a true 7th inning guy all season. His role has been that of a true fireman, come in and put out the fire another pitcher has started unfortunately he has been used heavily and it may be catching up to him his last few appearances have been sub standard. It will be good to have Soria and hopefully Caminero if he's back on track, to give him a break.
Michel Plasse Fan
8-9-2015, 12:27 am
We now at least two SP who can't be counted on giving the team 6 solid IPs. Hughes will be the 6th inning man, probably more than we like.
Jayme 7
8-9-2015, 2:18 am
Let me preface this by saying I really like Hughes. His sprints to the mound, is fundamental decency as a person, and I think he's a pretty solid pitcher who has been exceptional (and exceptionally lucky in some ways) with his strand rate this year. But he's been getting knocked around like a Coney Island pinball since the break and I was thrilled with Soria's acquisition. Hughes is a solid middle relief guy but nowhere near Soria's level. We were really lucky to get him.
Biz
8-9-2015, 2:57 am
IMO Hughes has been used too much, I think the true worry is as JAL said below regarding SP giving more innings, overuse is a worry
Bubba Banjo
8-9-2015, 12:38 pm
Jayme I couldnt agree more on Soria and Hughes. Man-O-Man we needed help on Middle Relief. Gives our starters more flexibility to go all-in for 5-7 innings too. Soria was an awesome pickup. We need another starter though. Liriano goes down...... Oooooooooooof.
zidanesdagger
8-8-2015, 11:06 pm
This just underscores why, fans obviously didn't expect David Price or Cole Hamels to walk through that door, but to only bring in Happ, who was heading to waivers anyway, in the face of AJ being hurt, it just boggles my mind the Pirates did not go for a higher quality starter.
Now if something really is wrong with Liriano, what do they do? Bring Worley back after banishing him to Indy?
IMO, having to make a move would put them in a pickle with the 40 man and the 25 man rosters, neither Liz or Worley could be brought up for a one time start, as they would have to be put on waivers again and I think no one on the pitching staff has any options left, save Lurch
No solid evidence as of tonight that Liriano won't be able to make his next start, right?
VABurgher
8-8-2015, 11:23 pm
Bring Liz up if he shows anything at all waive Happ who in their right mind would claim him.
Biz
8-8-2015, 11:48 pm
Don't know if Scahill could be placed on the 60 day DL, he is currently rehabbing in the minors
Biz
8-9-2015, 12:25 am
And no offense, VAB, I would be surprised to see Happ DFA'd 2 weeks or so after trading for him. And a 24 year old AAA pitcher to boot ;-)
Battleship Bob
8-9-2015, 12:46 am
The goal appears to be to win consistently enough to make money, not necessarily to win the World Series. The business play and the baseball play are different tacts. We are seeing a good product on the field every night... just maybe not good enough to get that funny looking flag trophy.
rk98
8-9-2015, 1:39 am
Sorry Biz, you are right. I thought I read where he made it through waivers. My bad.
Biz
8-9-2015, 1:56 am
NP, rk, its just not so easy to move folks up and down, rosters are in a pickle if Liriano just needs a spot start.
rk98
8-9-2015, 12:04 am
DK ... I have been meaning to ask this for while now. I have noticed that the videos and the quotes that follow are not in synch. Like above when you asked Watson if it feels like they have three closers and he agrees. Then you quote him as saying "we feel like we have three closers." Are the videos the actual interviews? Or are they done prior/after the actual interviews?
I usually do the videos first, but almost always talk additionally afterward.
Bubba Banjo
8-9-2015, 11:41 am
They seem to be doing these right after they happen "Hot off the Press". I like that. Quick coverage and then awesome in depth write-up and opinion pieces. From time to time it slips. Thats cool. Its like in game calls. Cant get em all. Good job boys.
Matt the Stat
8-9-2015, 12:07 am
Cards win again. Do they ever lose anymore? I would love to see the Bucs surprise them and pull off a sweep in St. Louis.
I think a great goal for the team tomorrow would be to play a solid fundamental game, one that is totally free of mental mistakes. I would settle for zero base running gaffes, or at the very least, no plays on the base paths that are left up for debate as to whether a serious lapse in judgement had just occurred. If this team can tighten up the focus just a little bit, games like tonight's are a lot less nerve wracking at the end and far less strenuous on our magnificent 7-8-9 bullpen. I can appreciate taking risks, but there is a fine line between being aggressive, which implies strategic thought and being reckless, which implies the opposite. That difference seems to be the most recognizable margin that currently separates the PBC from St Louis.
It will be be interesting to see whether all three relievers are available Sunday, given the off day last Thursday and another off day this coming Monday.
I kind of hope none are available. Hurdle sold out to win the series, now he's got to rest them and hope for the team win. These guys will be required for the playoffs and you can't burn them out in August...plus they have the Cards next week
rk98
8-9-2015, 12:17 am
Soria pitched in 48 games last year and already is at 48 this year. So he'll end up over last year.
Watson pitched in 78 games last year and is at 52 this year. He is on pace to be a few games under.
Melancon pitched in 72 games last year and is at 53 this year. He is pace for last year.
Plus I am hoping they will be adding a lot of games in October/November...
Biz
8-9-2015, 12:22 am
I've heard and read many times that they shy away from throwing a reliever 3 days in a row. Not to say they won't, in the right situation.
The PBC counts steps, or some such thing, for goodness sakes.
The club has a system and philosophy. Draft wise, its changed a bit, year by year, but otherwise, for the most part, they stick to it.
IMO anyways
cmat0829
8-9-2015, 3:18 am
Can't fault winning the games one at a time and let tomorroe take care of itself. Of the three, I think Melancon won't be available. But I can definitely see the other two being available. With Hughes well rested also.
LonelyLibertarian
8-9-2015, 12:12 pm
I would definately give Melanin the day off - two days rest going into St Louis would be good for him I think - starting to see a few more very hard hit balls than we were a month or so ago.
BuccoAficionado
8-9-2015, 12:56 am
What exactly is "management's Vance Worley mess"? He cleared waivers and is back in Indy, nobody wanted him. I'd say management's view of Worley is identical to the other 29 MLB teams, and he is available for recall to the big club if needed.
That's what you got out of that material up there?
That phrase?
OK, then, let's find a better phrase to describe DFAing a sixth starter/reliever right after one of the starters comes down with elbow issues AND keeping Deolis Guerra in place of him AND releasing Guerra shortly thereafter AND losing Guerra on waivers AND having the Guerra claim by the Indians rejected because he had a bum knee AND wrecking your rotation at a time when you're facing nothing but division leaders AND forcing Liriano to pitch a day early because of that AND watching Liriano get at least a little hurt in that start ...
Messy enough?
They do make mistakes, you know?
If you're too caught up in waging battles from 2009 to even entertain a dialogue to that effect, I don't know what else to say.
DemonDachshund
8-9-2015, 1:29 am
Seriously, it's like you can't criticize the mistakes.
Look, the management team has made a TON of great moves this year. Cervelli, Kang, Liriano, AJ, etc. But 1B is mediocre and the rotation is seriously hurting right now, and while I appreciate the heck out of the fact that I once again have interesting baseball to watch in August, pointing out mistakes is part of DK’s job. And these guys have been very good, but not perfect.
Biz
8-9-2015, 1:32 am
August 19th is Star Wars night at PNC ;-)
Dejan Kovacevic
8-9-2015, 1:35 am
@DD: That's why I keep referencing the 2009 thing. Because that's all this is. That was THE big debate among Pirates fans back then, and as with so much else in modern society, you were either for or against with no room for anything in between. And the people still stuck in that groove see one little thing like the Worley phrase and it's A-HA! YOU ARE AN ANTI! Honestly, I'm past all that garbage. You want to talk 2015? I'm all ears. There's another place in town for that stale stuff.
cmat0829
8-9-2015, 3:17 am
Liriano only pitched a few innings the last start due to the rain delay. So I doubt moving him up was any real risk at all. But otherwise yes indeed the Worley thing was mishandled
Jim Hofer
8-9-2015, 9:34 am
Burnett didn't reveal the arm pain until after the Worley DFA so I don't agree that it was a mess. They thought they were upgrading the pen over a guy who wasn't happy to be there. It didn't work out cause AJ was injured but if they didn't know that I don't see it as a mistake really. Bad timing and then not coming up with a good fix on July 31 (Happ trade was really poor)
LonelyLibertarian
8-9-2015, 12:07 pm
I worked in Marketing for 30+ years and most marketers will tell you New Coke was a huge mistake - some of us were skeptical. The "fiasco" generated a TON of free mentions and publicity - and Coke just reloaded and rolled on. I am anxious to hear Huntington's show Sunday - he MIGHT say something like...
"We knew Vance's contract was going to make it highly unlikely someone would claim him - and if they had we would have freed up the money for other uses or worked out a fair trade for prospect[s]. Our plan all along was to get him to Indy and get him regular work as a starter so he would be ready if we needed him in the last 6 weeks or so of the season".
That's what I would say ;-)
Bubba Banjo
8-9-2015, 12:15 pm
Wow DK..... I didnt know all of that. That is a mess. I was no fan of the Worley move but yikes. If Liriano got hurt. Ooooooooof.
A. Lane
8-9-2015, 12:38 pm
Wasn't Worley DFA'ed prior to Burnett's start and subsequent reporting of his injury?
I found the move odd, but Worley's slider hasn't been the same, and the margins are thin for deception and angles pitchers like Worley.
BuccoAficionado
8-9-2015, 1:04 pm
Yep A. Lane, he was DFA'ed on 7/30, earlier the same of Burnett's last start against Cincy. I don't expect an apology from DK for his mistake, or for rattling on about 2009 for some unknown reason.
Should Pirates management have done more on 7/31 to shore up the starting rotation after A. J. Last three mediocre starts? Absolutely, without s doubt. However, that is an entirely different question than whether the Pirates should have kept Worley after Blanton was acquired. Since every other team passed on Worley, I think it's safe to say that GMDK drastically overvalues Vanimal's current MLB worth.
BuccoAficionado
8-9-2015, 1:18 pm
And by the way DK, for someone who on more than one occasion has criticized me and other readers for lumping you in with other Pittsburgh sports journalists, you certainly like to generalize any subscriber who dares to disagree with you when you demonize a management decision by the Pirates. You don't have to be a BMTIB apologist (which I am not) to come up with an opinion that differs with yours.
A. Lane
8-9-2015, 1:41 pm
I was just questioning the time line?
Its sports, it doesn't matter, but I do like discussing sports. I save my outrage and make things personal for more consequential issues.
ajwrites57
8-9-2015, 2:18 am
Great stuff Dejan, hard to comment on it all. If you watch the Liriano hone run video, when he reaches the plate, he was wincing a little and touching his upper rib cage. Might be a coincidence...
If you watch closely Liriano twinges on the swing right BEFORE the home run. No idea if that swing caused it or it was already tweaked but it wasn't the HR swing
Dejan Kovacevic
8-9-2015, 3:23 am
@cmat: He was adamant it wasn't the swing.
Immilton
8-9-2015, 5:12 am
Of course he says he wasn't hurt on the swing. He wants to pinch hit today.
cmat0829
8-9-2015, 5:40 pm
DK. My response was to the HR SWING. IF he says it wasn't the swing at all then great. Someone said it was the HR swing.
Mizery
8-9-2015, 2:23 am
What I find real encouraging is that the past two games the Pirates have made a ton of mistakes and wasted even more opportunities, yet they still are finding a way to win against one of the best teams in the National League. Imagine if they weren't making these mistakes how much more dominating they would be besides being the 2nd best team in MLB.
You wouldn't believe how much they talk about that themselves, Miz! Almost like it's a badge of honor!
Battleship Bob
8-9-2015, 3:06 am
Do they think that they can flip the switch and stop making mistakes? Is winning preventing them from sensing the urgency to prevent the mistakes? Sorry to be negative, but it drives me nuts and it seems to happen every game.
Tom P.
8-9-2015, 7:28 am
Bob, I was going to ask a similar question, something along the lines of, "Do they talk as much about not making the mistakes in the first place?"
Mizery
8-9-2015, 12:09 pm
Great insight DK. I feel that the Pirates should view it as a lesson that they need to tighten up their game so they can catch the Cardinals. Although I like their confidence and fortitude (Pirates teams of the past would fold after the first bad thing happened to them), I can't see them getting away with this in the playoffs. You want a team that never quits and believes in themselves, but you also want a team that is willing to learn from their mistakes.
A. Lane
8-9-2015, 12:54 pm
It would be an illuminating experience for Pirates' fans to follow the final thought in this article and chart the opponents mental mistakes and lack of fundamentals for a couple games, or even watch two other teams play and do it.
I'm in no way saying the Pirates aren't bad at certain things, but it would provide some perspective and every post-game thread wouldn't read like list of today's crimes against Tom Emanski.
wsamcap
8-9-2015, 6:39 am
Great perspective, DK, covering the right stuff. As for Polanco doing nothing "wrong", while he had to hold up, I think if he slides into 2nd, he beats the throw. Which is to take nothing away from Puig's nice play
As always great insight and the 7-8-9 points. Hopefully the starters can get to the 6th with the lead and then the three stoppers, looks like a great chance for a win.
Pitching Strategy: I do not know what it would cost to get Soria, I would imagine 5-7 range a year, but if that is so, then two ways to compete with a strong staff> Lights out SP, which we will not have next year in the beginning, or decent to good staff, and lights out bullpen.
So, it be cheaper and just as significant to have this guy addressed to a decent contract 3 year deal for next year. It protects against Melancon leaving after next year, and makes the BP outstanding.....
The problem with this train of thought is that you are paying quite a lot for an aging former closer who hasn't been absolutely dominating this year and all but assuring that Melancon could not be resigned. Melancon is the younger and despite some opinions to the contrary the more dominating closer this year.
TheGreatOne21
8-9-2015, 9:06 am
While replays went our way, the whole concept in sports is out of control, horribly interruptive to flow of game, reduces fans enjoying or bemoaning the initial outcome of a call or play (unless one is texting the whole time), and still is not always a consensus.
The premise: just get it right is a false one. If that is the case, review everything close.
Replay proponents are similar to politicians that want to start a small program to help fix something, and by the time you are done, you have a MASSIVE program, that most agree stinks.
I only wanted Home Plate calls to be reviewed because over the years, I thought this pivotal play (runs involved) was missed at least 60 percent of time. Now we have more and more with eventually everything but Balls and Strikes being reviewed.
NFL same thing. Did replay satisfy Dez Bryant's play in Playoffs as a non catch? No.
Can we JUST WATCH THE GAME anymore, with very limited replays, and one immediate challenge, and whether right or wrong, that is all you get.
Phil Mushnick (similar to DK and Josh if I recall a video segment by them on the concept), captures my views yet again with this excellent analysis on Replays and original intent.
I'm all for replays but on a 1 min timer. If its a science project go with the call. If its obvious it was missed overturn. Fast. Balls and strikes I would actually like to see an electronic assist. Ump get an electronic on the outfield wall. But its his call. Immediate. No review. Help the man but let him make the call.
Bubba Banjo
8-9-2015, 11:43 am
Or if you wanna go high tech.... Google Glass assist for the Ump. Pretty cool.
Bob
8-9-2015, 10:02 am
DK I agree that the Polanco play was strange, but unfortunately he gets the brunt of the criticism for the rash of baserunning gaffes as of late. Agressive running is usually always acceptable, mental errors when running is what gets everyone wound up.
Palanco is a big kid. Still learning. He will get there.
War Horse
8-9-2015, 10:04 am
Sorry, folks, you may find it encouraging that the Bucs can beat the Dodgers despite their many mistakes, but I don't. One of the Bucs' most serious problems is their fielding: most errors of any NL team except the Brewers. The rest of the fielding stats support the premise that, other than Milwaukee, the Pirates are the worst fielding team in the NL. Add the base-running gaffes and you have a recipe for disaster. Meanwhile, the Cardinals' pitching is getting them through. The team is 15-6 since the All Star break and the Bucs are 11-9. In the same period, the Cardinals' ERA for starters and relievers is 2.06 and ours is 4.91. I don't see us catching or beating them for the NL Central title. Which means we will probably have to play the onc playoff game at home against the Cubs, Dodgers or Giants and then, like 2013, a best of five game series against those smarter base-running, fielding and pitching Cardinals with the 5th game, if needed, in St. Louis. You need three strong starters to win a five game series; only two to win a seven game series. The Cards have three strong starters and, at the moment, we have only one or two.
No doubt brutha. When it gets serious these brain farts will be fatal.
21 in RF
8-9-2015, 1:16 pm
Remember: the Pirates make more mistakes because they make more plays. Their pitching is based on chances, most of which are converted, therefore they win. But they make more overall plays than any other team, so their chance for errors is higher.
Soria will end up being one great trade for the bucs. I think he will take a big load off the back end of the bull pen. With AJ out and no real replacement the need for a stronger bull pen is stronger. Pitchers will become available as teams fall out of the wild card race. But that may be to late to cover for AJ by then.
So Hurdle has already decided not to think; to manage in a "push-button" style. We're supposed to be impressed that he has already decided 7-8-9?
You notice that the heart of another team's lineup is likely to come up in the 9th. There are a few guys who struggle against lefties. You have both Melancon or Watson available that night. Smart move is using Watson. Hurdle's move is to use Melancon because he predetermined this via his "role". Use a predetermined closer in the 9th when you have a lead. Let him pitch in a tie game at home but never on the road. Etc Etc. Archaic and thoughtless baseball-isms that (a) keep a manager from thinking and (b) give him a free pass if things don't work out.
I will say one thing in Hurdle's defense: it's how most managers manage the game. It's just a damn shame.
Hurdle is a horrible strategist. He seems to be, by all accounts, a good leader. He runs a good clubhouse. He deserves credit for that. But only that.
Ok jose. 30 MLB managers do it the same way. But jose is right.
blurjose
8-10-2015, 12:20 am
As much as I would like to take credit for this outside the box thinking I simply can't. It's an original idea. Just like it's not an original idea to try and put high OBP guys at the top of the lineup instead of just putting your fastest guys up there. Just like it's not an original idea to say that bunting is generally a bad idea (unless one run wins it or the pitcher is up). That many (not all) managers manage this way is a testament to how slow baseball can be to adapt. Hell I'm shocked Hurdle was open to doing defensive shifts given how backwards Hurdle is about almost everything else.
Mark Melancon exults after his 35th save Saturday night at PNC Park. -- JARED WICKERHAM / GETTY
August 8, 2015
Hurdle’s formula for success simple as 7-8-9
138by Dejan Kovacevic • Coverage • Pirates
Joakim Soria has now pitched five times for the Pirates since being acquired from the Tigers: July 31, and the 2nd, 5th, 7th and 8th of this month.
Tony Watson and Mark Melancon’s past five appearances: July 31, and the 2nd, 5th, 7th and 8th of this month.
Coincidence?
“Ha! Not a chance!” Clint Hurdle was telling me after his team’s 6-5 victory over the Dodgers Saturday night at PNC Park. “Other than the one time we needed to use Soria because Melancon was ejected, they’re going right in a row, just like that.”
Meaning 7-8-9.
Meaning the man is only beginning to realize every manager’s dream of navigating through six innings, then pressing the auto-pilot button.
“Well, it certainly makes things easier, and that’s absolutely why we went out and got Soria,” he said. “But at the same time, you’ve got to be aware that you can’t go with those three like that all the time because you’ll need to spread it out a bit.”
For example, I asked, now that this 7-8-9 sequence played out in taking the first two games of this series with the Dodgers, who might be unavailable for the sweep attempt Sunday?
“That’s what we’ll be discussing. We aren’t sure yet.”
What is sure is that the Pirates’ back-end big boys are enjoying this:
Melancon wasn’t at his sharpest, to be kind, conceding a run, two hits, a walk and a couple of seriously stung lineouts. But he ramped up that cutter to 92 mph to cap his big-league-best 35th save, the 33rd in a row. And, lest anyone fret over lost fingernails in the process, the proper context shows the run he allowed was just the third in the past 45 appearances.
Three runs, 45 appearances!
“Honestly, I’m just having fun,” Melancon said. “A game like this, a situation like this, with everybody so into it … that’s fun, man. It is.”
Soria, the newcomer, made clear he’s having fun, too, even though he went from closer in Detroit to a notch below setup man.
“I just want to win,” Soria said. “That’s why I’m here. If I take the ball in the seventh inning and we have these other great pitchers here … let’s just win.”
Watson summed up the sentiment best: “We feel like we’ve got three closers. Remember that game Mark got tossed and Soria came in? It was like nothing had changed.”
• Seriously good show by Joe Blanton, too: His three zeroes settled the game after Francisco Liriano had to be pulled following the third. He allowed two hits and a walk while fanning three.
“MVP of the night,” as Melancon called Blanton.
“Just like Kansas City,” Francisco Cervelli said, referring to when Blanton was pitching for the Royals and blanked the Pirates over three innings last month at Kauffman Stadium. “Located his fastball. Put it right where he wanted.”
“That’s why we got him,” Hurdle said.
Say what you will of management’s Vance Worley mess, but Blanton might turn out to be a find. In 13 relief appearances this season, including two with the Pirates now, he has a 2.57 ERA. Now, ERA isn’t much of a statistic for relievers, but I’ll still make an exception for long men because they’re essentially pitching mini-starts.
• Liriano could whoop it up for a bit when he sliced his first career home run inside the left foul pole, a three-run shot in the second that briefly spotted the Pirates a 4-2 lead, but it didn’t last: He was out after an exasperating, erratic three innings — four runs, seven hits, two walks — that saw him misfire on 37 of his 79 pitches.
Most ominous, about a minute before Kike Hernandez launched a two-run home run off Liriano in the third, he was visited on the mound by athletic trainer Todd Tomczyk.
It wasn’t clear afterward if the two events were related. First, Hurdle said that Liriano wasn’t lifted because of any injury. A few minutes later, Liriano confirmed he could have continued pitching but acknowledged a ‘little thing’ in his upper right chest, near the armpit.
Could he have been hurt on that mighty swing?
He laughed and replied, “No, no way.”
It should be noted that Liriano was bumped up a day in the rotation, in large part because J.A. Happ has been terrible and isn’t being trusted to pitch in St. Louis this week. It’s impossible to say how much of a role the bump-up plays, but it obviously underscores yet another reason it’s important not to downgrade a position at the trading deadline.
• Hurdle took the rare step of giving a nod to the Pirates’ longtime video coordinator, Kevin Roach, for his part in helping the team win three replay challenges.
“He had a heck of a game,” Hurdle said.
I mentioned to Roach that the manager had praised him in his postgame press conference and, after his disbelief dissolved, he fairly blushed: “You get lucky sometimes.”
• From the there-are-two-teams-out-there department, we might not see a more impressive display of raw baseball beauty than Yasiel Puig throwing out Gregory Polanco on a force play at second base in the first inning.
To boot, Polanco really didn’t do anything wrong. He had to hold up to see if Starling Marte’s ball would drop in front of Puig, which it did. If it doesn’t drop, of course, Puig is capable of gunning him down at first.
“He’s amazing,” Polanco said of Puig. “Great player.”
Moms and dads, always encourage your kids to watch the opponent, too. Those other guys are very much included in the ticket price.