So, too, does the Pirates’ previously indomitable rotation.
A fifth straight disappointing start resulted in a 5-2 loss to the Reds on Wednesday at PNC Park, and this one saw the staff ace endure one of the worst outings of his career in allowing five runs and eight hits over 4 2/3 innings and a gaudy 106 pitches.
“They were selectively aggressive,” Cole said of the Cincinnati lineup. “I wouldn’t say they were guessing. But when they got a pitch they were looking for, they put good swings on the ball. That’s what they’re supposed to do.”
What is it about the Reds, against whom Cole is now 0-3 with a 5.78 ERA in five meetings?
“I couldn’t put guys away,” he said. “They’re tough. They’ve got professional hitters. Joey Votto. Todd Frazier. Marlon Byrd.”
Cole acknowledged not feeling right, either. His health was fine and his velocity was typically high. He sensed early, however, that his mechanics were out of whack, specifically that he was throwing across his body.
“I didn’t bring out a good delivery tonight,” Cole said. “My stuff was a little flat. When I needed to make pitches, I didn’t. It’s frustrating.”
Gerrit Cole towels off in the home dugout after his worst start of the season. — JARED WICKERHAM / GETTY
Cole knew the Pirates’ bullpen had been overworked because of the rough weekend in Washington and Jeff Locke’s brief start Tuesday. He wanted to be his team’s stopper. Instead, he allowed more than three earned runs in a game for the first time all season.
In fact, he allowed four before he had recorded three outs.
“They did a hell of a job of picking me up,” Cole said of the scoreless relief by Jared Hughes, newcomer Chris Volstad and Antonio Bastardo. “I knew they had been (overworked). That’s why it’s especially disappointing.”
Cole’s ERA rose from 1.78 to 2.16.
Byrd’s two-run home run gave the Reds a 4-0 lead in the first. Frazier and Jay Bruce also contributed run-scoring hits.
“Take a random survey of pitchers who have pitched well,” Clint Hurdle said. “They give up runs. Those other guys get paid over there. They drive nice cars. That’s a veteran lineup. He did the best with what he had tonight.”
Cole was accountable for the loss and didn’t seem rattled by it.
“It boils down to me not executing pitches,” he said. “I was flat today. It happens.”
• Hughes has become a rubber-armed workhorse for Hurdle. He has made 35 appearances, the fourth most in all of baseball, and added 1 1/3 innings Wednesday with two strikeouts, including a big one of Eugenio Suarez to escape a jam in the fifth.
Opponents are hitting .289 against Hughes, but that number represents a sharp drop from earlier in the season. He has walked only six batters in 30 2/3 innings and, while still primarily a ground-ball pitcher, has struck out 25.
He sounds like he’s feeling good about himself and his workout routine:
• Chris Stewart, who has emerged as Cole’s personal catcher, took the loss especially hard.
The game was lost in the first inning, when the Reds scored four times. Given that Cole struck out the No. 2 hitter, Ivan De Jesus, and the No. 3 hitter, Votto, that inning, it would have been a fairly simple first inning for Cole if not for Billy Hamilton stealing second and third.
“If I could throw anyone out, it would have been a different story out there,” Stewart said.
Hamilton isn’t just anyone.
“He’s just faster than anyone else,” Stewart acknowledged.
Stewart actually did have an excellent chance to throw out Hamilton at third. Hamilton didn’t get a good jump and a strong, low throw almost certainly would have nailed him. Instead, the throw sailed.
“I know if I have a good pitch to throw on, I can throw anyone out,” Stewart said. “It’s a matter of executing. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make good throws tonight.”
It goes without saying that the Reds are a significantly different team when Hamilton gets on base. He entered the game with a .226 batting average but made his presence felt early.
“It’s not fun,” Cole said of dealing with Hamilton.
• The Reds aren’t an especially good team, but they are uniquely talented. They have baseball’s fastest player and its hardest-throwing player in Aroldis Chapman, who will be available for the series finale Thursday after a brief paternity leave.
And then there is Todd Frazier, the man who owns the Pirates. And PNC Park. And Pittsburgh.
Frazier did it again Wednesday, even if it was subtle: With the runner at third and two outs in the first, Cole threw him a slider that Stewart said blew him away with its movement, but Frazier still sliced it into right for an RBI single.
Check out Stewart’s assessment of the Cincinnati lineup: “They’re veteran guys. They work the count. Votto, it seems like he fouls off balls just to push up the pitch count.”
Frazier would finish this game 1 for 5, but he’s still batting .357 — 10 for 28 — with four home runs against the Pirates this season. He has 12 home runs against them over the past three seasons, four more than he has against any other opponent.
“Frazier is the wild card,” Stewart said. “You never know what he’ll do. He hit an absolutely incredible slider. I have no idea how he hit it, but he did.”
The ball Frazier hit was hardly a rocket. It almost hung up long enough for Gregory Polanco to retrieve it. Had he taken a better angle on the ball, he may have caught it.
“That was a pretty darn good pitch,” Hurdle said. “We lay out for it and don’t come up with it.”
• It almost happened again to Polanco. He was called out twice Tuesday for oversliding a base, and the Reds called for a review of his slide in the seventh inning of this one.
Polanco was called safe, but was he?
The replay indicated that his body came off second base for a moment, though it was difficult to determine if he was being tagged at the precise moment of his leg moving.
Polanco is a sensational talent but in some ways is a microcosm of his team. There is so much talent, but sometimes the little things turn into big things. At the same time, the only choice for management is to be patient. Polanco is going through growing pains, quite typical of a young player at this level.
“Step aside everyone! Sensitive love letters are my specialty. 'Dear Polanco, Welcome to Dumpsville. Population: you.'
"Marge, this ticket doesn't just give me a seat. It also gives me the right, no, the duty to make a complete ass of myself. Which ones Polanco?"
“Marge, don't discourage Polanco! Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel.”
“Gregory, if you don't like your job you don't strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way.”
DJ
6-25-2015, 9:56 pm
Classics, SK.
Matt the Stat
6-25-2015, 12:43 am
The anemic offense shows up again. This has happened way too many times this season. The pitching has hit a rough patch. It is high time that the hitters start showing more consistency. Marte is one frustrating player to watch. In one at bat he can look dynamite and then in the next few he looks just plain awful as he flails away at pitches miles out of the strike zone. Ugh!!!
Josh, your interview with Hughes was outstanding. It enlightened me about a pitcher's "arm care" and his daily stretching and exercise routines, which helps him be ready to pitch as often that he does. Thanks!
I'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen. Polanco is not Jason Bay. Pretty sure if they traded him, fans around the world would be saying;
"Yep! He used to be a Pirate. Not sure why they traded him"
steelag70
6-25-2015, 9:22 am
This team needs an upgrade and you have to trade something of value, perceived or otherwise, to get value back.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 9:25 am
Forgive me agelbagel.
I'm not giving up Polanco. But one year in I'm disappointed. It has the feel of Chad Hermansen. All this hype, the tools, so on and so forth and what I see night in and night out couldn't be more different. Hes getting over matched by pitches that Kris Bryant and Joc Pedersen have crushed. Looks shakey in the field.
cmat and others are going to reply to this and talk about his age and time, and they'll be right. I just expected a lot more initial success. Since, those first two weeks last year, he's never looked right. And I believe the BA every month has gone down this year.
*ding*
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 9:26 am
The Pirates have proven 1 thing over the last few years. Staying the course and being patient seems to work fairly well.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 9:30 am
...keep in mind too they've protected this guy against LHP. I don't like to agree with Colin Dunlap but at some point he's gonna have to sink or swim against southpaws.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 10:07 am
Polanco compared to Peterson and Bryant are apples and oranges. Polanco wasnt even in the same conversation with Sano or Abreu. If he was he wouldnt be a Pirate. So exercising patients is a necessity in this regard. 5 years ago he was a left handed pitcher. Now hes the starting right fielder on a MLB team. Give him a minute.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 10:14 am
I'm not talking 5 years ago. I'm talking late 2013, early last year. He was a top ten prospect.
Im not writing him off, SK. I just expected more polish from the hype.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 10:32 am
Lindor, Baez, Buxton, and Correa are position players ranked ahead of GP in 2013 who are all in AAA
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 10:36 am
No they aren't.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 11:04 am
SK, just so we are clear, I'm not advocating a trade of Polanco and I'm still on the fence about him returning to Indy. I just think its more than fair to surmise that he was a little more raw than initially thought. He very well could turn it on in the second half.
I enjoyed the Simpsons quotes below. Not a fan of Homer and Marge splitting up. :)
Beaz is in Iowa on rehab. He will remain when healthy
Lindor is up but struggling. 3 errors in 10 games with 8 K's. Going back to columbus soon.
Buxton is up until Tori Hunter is back from suspension
Correa is in the Texas PCL
Even if they are up for periods of time, they are not exactly lighting up the sports world
NMR
6-25-2015, 11:08 am
Who is this optimistic "Steelkings" guy and what has he done with the surly crank I've grown to love?!
;)
Arriba Wilver
6-25-2015, 11:18 am
I was kind of wondering the same thing, NMR. But i'm not complaining.
;-)
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 11:23 am
*ding* Recency bias. :)
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 11:34 am
When it comes to Polanco, most everything I read here is right. With the exception of the view that he should be traded or is right now the equivalent of Chad Hermansen.
No doubt we all expected more. He was overhyped (mostly NOT by the Pirates themselves to be fair), and we all thought that just once we'd have one of those phenom prospects that skip the growing pains and go right to wowing us on a nightly basis. He is not that. He has a lot of work to do defensively, baserunning and at the plate. It is quite possible that more AAA time may have been very good for Gregory but of course the Bucs 'rushed' him last June -- despite everyone saying they were doing the opposite.
I see a lot of raw talent and even though he is scuffling it isn't like he is overwhelmed up here. I liken him more to someone like Kolten Wong who had to go down last year and now is an important contributor on the Cards....
At this point I'm just not willing to give up on it all finally clicking for Gregory...and if it does, you don't want to have traded him away. Not in the slightest.
The debate now is what to do with Gregory in 2015... let him keep learning in the bigs or send him to Indy for a reboot. Sad thing is at this point, I still think Polanco in the lineup is better than Decker and/or moving Harrison to RF, playing Gang at 3b everyday and putting up with Mercer at everyday SS. Polanco > Mercer at this point. If Mercer were hitting like last summer, then I'd definitely send Polanco down, JayHey in RF and go from there. But he isn't.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 11:37 am
That and I stayed at a Holiday inn express last night!
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 11:42 am
All fair, cmat. Probably has to play out for another month.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 12:09 pm
I stand corrected frank. Correa is up. For a whopping 15 games. And we are also talking about a guy who has 53 combined games in AA and AAA combined. That will float back down to earth eventually.
Try not to forget Frank, that after the first 16 games in 2014, Polanco was hitting .338 with a .416 OBP and a 857 OPS.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 12:12 pm
Also....( I'm getting cranky!) This is for you NMR and Wilver.......
GREGORY POLANCO....Well ...He's certainly no Pedro Alvarez!
Arriba Wilver
6-25-2015, 1:04 pm
fk can do that to you, SK. Make one cranky, I mean. :-)
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 1:15 pm
+2 AW
steelag70
6-25-2015, 2:21 am
Once again the Buccos get dominated by a division opponent, outside of one big inning last night, this offense continues to struggle.
Cole is not superhuman....... he can't be expected to shut down every team every time. its the hitting that is anemic!
One run here, 2 runs there (for an entire game) will not cut it.
I have a bad feeling the Bucs are a paper tiger......... good record against bad teams, when the big boys show up, they crumble.
If this continues, the Bucs will lose the WC again, if they make the playoffs at all with that offensive offense..........
Before the " Yinz, need to look at the Standingz" crowd comes in here, Plan, I just want to tell you, I wonder about this stuff myself.
There's so many little things this team doesn't do well defensively, baserunning, middle relief bleeding,2 strike approach, RISP...the good pitching on the front end and backend has masked a lot of it.
I still think they'll win a bunch of games, but I wonder how they stack up against LA and the Nationals, not to mention Cards and Giants...in a playoff series where they got to beat an ace pitcher once or twice.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 8:37 am
I dont know fellas. I think the Pirates are pretty good. I dismiss the paper tiger theory. However, I get the feeling that this season, even in it relative infancy, has been a grind. Seems like we should be approaching August, not July. If the physical and mental grind continues as its going, can the Pirates hang on through late August and early September?
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 8:48 am
But since you mentioned the standingz crowd. Need I remind everyone how strangely baseball works.
Milwaukee Brewers 2014
6.5 game division lead - July first
3.0 game division lead - August 17th
1.0 games back of the Cards - Sept 1st
steelag70
6-25-2015, 9:55 am
Steel...the Cards will not do what the Brewers did.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 10:10 am
Maybe not SL70. But the point is that we are not even at July 1st and things tend to change a whole lot in the 2nd half.
steelag70
6-25-2015, 10:47 am
Steel...the Cards won't collapse like the Brewers did. I think BPN is spot on with his comment about the Buccos.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 11:36 am
Dont put it past them. The Cardinals are at the injury precipice. Another injury or two and they certainly will come back to the pack. Look at that roster now. They are not all that! They just find a way. Injuries and Suspensions got the brew crew last year
steelag70
6-25-2015, 11:58 am
SK...Holliday is due back before the ASG, and Lance Lynn is back in the rotation...they certainly have weathered the storm with those two out. Plus, keep this in mind. The Buccos have not had any key injuries yet. If they do, their pace could be slowed down as well.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 2:30 pm
Keep in mind that in early August of 2014, the Cardinals were in 3rd place in the division. What this means to me is that I would say its a safer bet that the Pirates or Cubs will hang around til the end than the Cardinals running away with this division.
The Pace they are on would give them 104 wins by seasons end. Over 100 wins has only been done 10 times in history and only 2 times in the last 60 years. Since sabermetrics seems to be in flavor around here today......The odds of regression are looking pretty good.
Walter White
6-25-2015, 3:52 am
They have reworked Vostads delivery and he has been doing quite well ... 12 of 14 appearances were starts ... if he shows he can cut it up here ... goodbye Jeff Locke!!
Worley, Volstad, Locke...Throw a dart. IMO they are week to week the same guy.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 7:57 am
I agree Steel...I'm interested to see Clayton Richard. On the surface looks like he's pitched well at Indy, but I saw a stat yesterday that says he doesn't miss many bats. Which is pretty much Worley, Locke ect.
Rico
6-25-2015, 5:44 am
Cole should have gotten out of he first with one run. This was the two-strike (two-out) pitch to Bruce right before he hit the double.
Sorry. We're working on getting the pic function restored on comments.
Chris Snyder
6-25-2015, 6:20 am
It was only a matter of time until our pitchers regressed a little ... including Cole. It will be interesting to see what normal looks like from our starters ...
He DID. The 1st replay showed clearly he was out. For the life of me, I can't figure out why Hurdle didn't challenge. Would have been an entirely different 1st inning, if not game.
chethejet
6-25-2015, 8:17 am
Not knowing how to slide is not growing pains. Not understanding how to round a base is not growing pains. These are issues that should have been addressed long before he is in the majors. Experience is the best teacher only if one learns from it. Losing Martin took the mental toughness so important in the big games. The ones that foster that we can feeling. J Hay and Cutch compete. The rest simply can't get past the physical talent to elevate to the correct mindset and approach to become a championship team. If your life came down to picking a golfer to make that 10 footer, would you want Speith or Johnson? Polanco is Johnson.
Marte did the same thing in Chicago. Twice! But the throws were high and he got back.
If you slide too early, they are throwing you out. If you slide too late you get past the bag. Point being, guys that big, and that fast, sliding with perfect timing is easier said than done. Its what made guys like Lou Brock and Ricky Henderson very very special.
David Foster
6-25-2015, 8:58 am
Plus no one was being called out on those plays before replay.
Rico
6-25-2015, 9:18 am
Polanco is Polanco, and should not be compared to anyone else. He has exceptional talent, but not everyone develops at the same rate. When everything comes together for him--and it is almost inevitable that it will--it will be a special thing to watch. But in the meantime, maybe you should consider that timing, coordination and execution are not automatic things for any athlete and they must be honed through constant repetition and working on specific technique. As long as Polanco continues to work hard, he will surely develop into his talent.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 9:27 am
Well said Rico!
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 8:19 am
I am beginning to hate the "Challenge". Someone answer why we have speed up rules and at the same time allow ticky tac challenges? Why is it that you can challenge whether a guy who runs as fast as a leopard may have come a 1/4 inch off a bag, yet not challenge whether the umpire blew a called third strike on a ball that catches the corner by a 1/4 inch? Are there outs that are less important than others. The other night I watched a 7 minute challenge on whether the detroit SS actually hit the bag before he had the ball on a double play ball. 7 MINUTES ON A LOCATION PLAY! So if we are going to challenge ticky tac crap like that, then why not balls and strikes?
I'll tell you why. Its because we would be at every game ALL NIGHT! Thats why.
For what its worth MLB. Dump your stupid challenges and just let the Umps do their jobs. If they butcher a call it will just give us something to complain about. Why does anyone want to see a play over and over of a guy who clearly was safe via the naked eye? Why does MLB want to turn what would be a non controversial play into controversy? Makes no sense.
Could not agree with you more Steel. The fact that Cincy thought he might have come off the bag and challenged that only to find out he did come off the bag by about an inch and to have to watch this in super slow motion and then decide if the Reds player held the tag or got the tag on him is ludicrous! Take the challenge back to fair/foul, home run or not and be DONE with it.
Just an aside, I HATE replay in all sports, the human factor makes it more interesting. Yes egregious missed call occasionally have cost teams games but for the most part things are called correctly.
Sean
6-25-2015, 11:03 am
Yes, and thank you.
lax
6-25-2015, 11:09 am
"just let the Umps do their jobs."
Unfortunately, this seems to be more and more of an issue. i watched an ump miss a force play @ home the other night while he was standing 5 feet away. Replay may actually be part of the problem, b/c now they know there is a back-up plan when they bag a call.
Replay has also taken a lot of arguing out of the game, and i am guessing ejections are way down. Ejections now happen mostly w/ Balls and Strikes calls, i think.
Replay in tennis (not that i watch much) has been a revelation.
Arriba Wilver
6-25-2015, 11:31 am
Agree, SK. When replay started in football, it was supposed to correct egregious blown plays that decided the game (at the end). Then it morphed into ,well, lets just get it right whether it's clear and convincing or not. And Super slow mo has really changed it into these, like you say, 1/4 inch things, such as did the receiver have "control" of the ball when he went out of bounds, etc. Maybe they should just use regular speed replay. (duck)
Dapp27
6-25-2015, 8:58 am
With all the talk about trade scenarios for the Pirates that are unrealistic, and I admit some of laughable, one valid point has yet to be brought up by DK or others on this board. I get how ridiculous some of these "proposed trades" can be with us giving up our marginal or nonperforming players and thinking that the other team will give us their "good players" as DK alluded to while hosting the Madden show yesterday. It might be a little pre-mature to be so dismissive of that scenario happening at the deadline. Anyone who called in with that premise was quickly reminded on how no team will take your bad or marginal players for their good ones. Although highly unlikely it has happened before with a trade involving our very own PBC. In 2003, desperate to shed payroll, the Pirates traded Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton to the Cubs for Mat Bruback, Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez. It happens, the Pirates are a testimony to that. Not likely, but not unprecedented...
Fans want that ridiculous trade now. The problem is that the only time your scenario is even remotely possible is at the trade deadline. Which is still more than a month away.
Dapp27
6-25-2015, 10:07 am
Exactly right Steelkings......a move like that will only happen at the deadline, as teams waive the white flag and realize they are out of it.
Arriba Wilver
6-25-2015, 11:35 am
Using one of the worst trades in baseball history that had a very specific financial mess as it's backdrop, to make any kind of broad point about baseball seems very weak at best.
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 11:40 am
The 2003 trade wasnt just to shed payroll... the Bucs were seriously over the debt threshold if I recall right so this is an extreme example of shedding payroll.
THAT said, there will be teams that make trades for payroll reasons... but every MLB team knows the same information. The price right now is set by the sellers...and it is high. NO need for them to make moves now unless they are blown away by what they are offered. But at the deadline, the prices always come down because selling teams face the prospect of having to hold on to their trade pieces. Wanting it to be different, even passionately, isn't going to make it be.
Wilver I am not trying to make a broad point. I feel the point I was trying to make was very specific. It has happened before and to assume that there is not a team out there with a very specific finacial mess is speculating on your part. You have no way of knowing that for sure.You got a crystal ball? But, as I said when using the words "highly unlikely" I don't expect or predict that happening. Sound weak now? Take a breath, others can state opinions....
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 12:18 pm
Dapp, we can be pretty sure that MLB teams today, with the influx of MLB Advanced Media $$s and more robust revenue sharing, are not in the specific 'being over the allowable debt theshold' that the Pirates were in 2003. So using that deal -- the SINGULAR deal in the past decade plus that fits that profile -- as the baseline for expectations IS INDEED at least implausible and could fairly be called 'insane'. Lowering the bar to DEADLINE deals that you get good players for lesser 'price' - lower prospect or lesser $s - is very reasonable. But those deals happen at the deadline and not before.
there is one GM I'd be calling daily at this point -- Dave Stewart of the Dbacks -- who seems to be willing to shed payroll, though the pieces they have (and no Goldschmidt is not available - NOT NOT NOT) do not match up that well with what the Bucs need. But Stewart and LaRussa are trying to make Kevin Towers look like a genius.
Arriba Wilver
6-25-2015, 12:59 pm
I was expressing mine, Dapp27. And I'm breathing just fine, thank you.
To suggest a random event may happen is certainly true. But it sure seems a waste of brain cells to spend much time thinking about it until you are aware of that random event. JMO.
And cmat is correct, it wasn't just "shedding payroll" which happens all the time. It was a debt crisis. And it involved Dave Littlefield and Kevin McClatchy. "Nuff said.
Dapp27
6-25-2015, 1:27 pm
Fair enough all on points made, as mentioned before I am not hoping for or insinuating it will happen again. My only point was to dismiss it totally without anyone having specific knowledge or access to of all the MLB teams financials is shortsighted. There may be a team out there right now with a debt crisis, we just don't know. Littlefield and McClatchy were dense, agreed, but they did not corner the market on stupid baseball moves. I only cited one, I am sure there are a lot of "financial crisis" baseball moves made over the last 10 years.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 2:53 pm
""""My only point was to dismiss it totally without anyone having specific knowledge or access to of all the MLB teams financials is shortsighted."""
Advantage ---- Cardinals
Dapp27
6-25-2015, 3:17 pm
Classic....well done sir!
jordanwhite1025
6-25-2015, 9:00 am
"Polanco is a sensational talent but in some ways is a microcosm of his team. There is so much talent, but sometimes the little things turn into big things."
Well said, Josh. You said it better than I could have (and tried to on Twitter). Dead on.
Josh had a good tweet about Cutch too. How he hadn't stolen a base in 24 games and had only 3 steals all year. I knew they were down, but not that much.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 9:38 am
I wonder how much of that is the knee
jordanwhite1025
6-25-2015, 11:32 am
@bpn, cutch is on my fantasy team. I'm very well aware! lol
Look at Brett Gardner's numbers then looks at Cutch's. Apples and oranges in terms of leagues, parks, etc, but it's an eyebrow raiser.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 11:38 am
You know, I love Cutch. I hope he is resigned. But they are really gonna have to look at where his health and speed is when that day comes. He'll still be productive. Just not a CF. This could be the start of him losing a half step.
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 2:41 pm
You guys are killing happy uncle Steelkings. Just Killing me.
Ryan Stein
6-25-2015, 10:03 am
Is the expectation of Taillion and Glasnow both now in 2016 and not end of 2015 like some thought?
Glasnow is working his way back from an injury with the Black Bears. I wouldnt be surprised to see him get a few innings with the Pirates after the rosters increase depending on the standings.
Jameson Taillon likely wont get anywhere near the Pirates until 2016
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 11:46 am
The more I think about the Pirates offense.... and my sick mind wanders to it more than is healthy..... the more I think a big factor in their woes is the composition of the types of hitters they have. They lack a true leadoff type hitter -- have for years now -- JayHey and Marte are not leadoff guys... nor is Polanco.
Seems to me they have 3 options as it stands right now:
1) TURN Polanco into a better leadoff hitter (take more pitches, bunt more, etc.)
2) Move Neil Walker to the leadoff spot (he's really the best profile for it on the current roster)
3) Acquire a lead off type --- Ben Revere? -- to replace Polanco.
It just is ugly watching JayHey and Marte leadoff games flailing at every pitch coming in..... and Polanco only marginally better....
I WISH Alen Hanson could play SS, because I would perhaps rush him up here to replace Mercer and plug him in at leadoff. He profiles to be that type of hitter as far as I know.
grasping at straws but I have to think the type of hitters the Bucs are loaded up with is a big contributor to their struggles....
Cmat....you definitely make valid points. Cole said the Reds have some "professional hitters" and he is correct. Aside from Cutch, the Buccos don't have them.
Ryan Stein
6-25-2015, 12:00 pm
Pedro totally screws a lot of this up. He is a 4-spot cleanup hitter and only that and he absolutely fails at it. The only spot he hits half decently at is 6th in the order. He is so mentally weak it's not even funny. I'm not trying to attack his character, but it's true.
Polanco is the closest thing we have to a legit lead off hitter. He isn't close right now (although I think he will get there). He looks semi-lost and scared at the plate at times. Experience and confidence will change that.
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 12:03 pm
not defending Pedro, but i really don't think he causes the lineup problems. They could bench him and replace with defense in mind (Rodriguez) and wouldn't miss that much. They lack a leadoff hitter or hitters like Matt Carpenter that don't swing for power but for high average. they have plenty of swing hard and either hit it or K in their lineup already that can hit cleanup.
Right now Marte probably should hit cleanup in this lineup.
bpn8pitt
6-25-2015, 12:05 pm
Won't happen but Cervelli makes sense to me at 1.
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 12:10 pm
ya, cervelli or walker probably best suited for it at this point.
NMR
6-25-2015, 12:20 pm
Spot in the batting order has never made a shred of difference with Pedro.
Nobody has ever argued that he's *not* a streaky hitter. What you're seeing in his splits is that streakyness combined with the manner in which Hurdle moves him around.
Ryan Stein
6-25-2015, 12:56 pm
Pedro as 6th hitter > Pedro as 4th hitter.
He has never hit well at cleanup...ever, hence why he is never 4th anymore.
NMR
6-25-2015, 1:16 pm
Nothing more than a matter of timing and sample size, Ryan.
Hurdle has always been more willing to deal with Alvarez cold streaks batting 6th, as he should. It's not like PA hasn't been just as bad hitting 6th than he has hitting 4th over similar stretches. MORE at bats out of the 6th hole inevitably will catch more of those hot stretches that are part of his game.
Ryan Stein
6-25-2015, 1:25 pm
I hear ya NRM. With Toro's attributes he should be able to get it done batting 4th or anywhere else. I've been a pretty big supporter of the guy through his career and all of the up and downs. But the downs are drastically outweighing the one season where he performed.
I'm pretty much done with the guy; it's gotten pretty bad. Can't even catch a line drive hit directly at his glove/chest. If thats not mentally weak, I'm not sure what is.
I'm just not sure if it's too late for that AL team needing a DH to come calling offering anything decent....
Steelkings
6-25-2015, 2:37 pm
Pedro is not going anywhere!
The leadoff position is NH's big miss. I'll say his name and then duck for cover....
Brock Holt
cmat0829
6-25-2015, 12:08 pm
Mercer and Pedro right now are the biggest culprits as it pertains to WAR.... the Mercer replacement plan is Kang....but what is the Pedro replacement plan?
What if, say, Pedro had a shoulder 'inpingement'. Who would man 1b for the Pirates? Is it SRod?
Thinking way outside the box here, WAY, but wouldn't this lineup and team be better right now:
1b Walker
2b Alen Hanson
ss Kang
3b JayHey
lf marte
cf cutch
rf polanco
c cervelli
lineup:
Hanson
Walker
Cutch
Marte
Kang
Harrison
Cervelli
Polanco
Andrew McCutchen watches as Marlon Byrd homers into the center-field landscaping. -- JARED WICKERHAM / GETTY
June 24, 2015
The beast burdened, Cole finally buckles
by Josh Yohe • Coverage • Pirates
Gerrit Cole finally looked human.
So, too, does the Pirates’ previously indomitable rotation.
A fifth straight disappointing start resulted in a 5-2 loss to the Reds on Wednesday at PNC Park, and this one saw the staff ace endure one of the worst outings of his career in allowing five runs and eight hits over 4 2/3 innings and a gaudy 106 pitches.
“They were selectively aggressive,” Cole said of the Cincinnati lineup. “I wouldn’t say they were guessing. But when they got a pitch they were looking for, they put good swings on the ball. That’s what they’re supposed to do.”
What is it about the Reds, against whom Cole is now 0-3 with a 5.78 ERA in five meetings?
“I couldn’t put guys away,” he said. “They’re tough. They’ve got professional hitters. Joey Votto. Todd Frazier. Marlon Byrd.”
Cole acknowledged not feeling right, either. His health was fine and his velocity was typically high. He sensed early, however, that his mechanics were out of whack, specifically that he was throwing across his body.
“I didn’t bring out a good delivery tonight,” Cole said. “My stuff was a little flat. When I needed to make pitches, I didn’t. It’s frustrating.”
Gerrit Cole towels off in the home dugout after his worst start of the season. — JARED WICKERHAM / GETTY
Cole knew the Pirates’ bullpen had been overworked because of the rough weekend in Washington and Jeff Locke’s brief start Tuesday. He wanted to be his team’s stopper. Instead, he allowed more than three earned runs in a game for the first time all season.
In fact, he allowed four before he had recorded three outs.
“They did a hell of a job of picking me up,” Cole said of the scoreless relief by Jared Hughes, newcomer Chris Volstad and Antonio Bastardo. “I knew they had been (overworked). That’s why it’s especially disappointing.”
Cole’s ERA rose from 1.78 to 2.16.
Byrd’s two-run home run gave the Reds a 4-0 lead in the first. Frazier and Jay Bruce also contributed run-scoring hits.
“Take a random survey of pitchers who have pitched well,” Clint Hurdle said. “They give up runs. Those other guys get paid over there. They drive nice cars. That’s a veteran lineup. He did the best with what he had tonight.”
Cole was accountable for the loss and didn’t seem rattled by it.
“It boils down to me not executing pitches,” he said. “I was flat today. It happens.”
• Hughes has become a rubber-armed workhorse for Hurdle. He has made 35 appearances, the fourth most in all of baseball, and added 1 1/3 innings Wednesday with two strikeouts, including a big one of Eugenio Suarez to escape a jam in the fifth.
Opponents are hitting .289 against Hughes, but that number represents a sharp drop from earlier in the season. He has walked only six batters in 30 2/3 innings and, while still primarily a ground-ball pitcher, has struck out 25.
He sounds like he’s feeling good about himself and his workout routine:
• Chris Stewart, who has emerged as Cole’s personal catcher, took the loss especially hard.
The game was lost in the first inning, when the Reds scored four times. Given that Cole struck out the No. 2 hitter, Ivan De Jesus, and the No. 3 hitter, Votto, that inning, it would have been a fairly simple first inning for Cole if not for Billy Hamilton stealing second and third.
“If I could throw anyone out, it would have been a different story out there,” Stewart said.
Hamilton isn’t just anyone.
“He’s just faster than anyone else,” Stewart acknowledged.
Stewart actually did have an excellent chance to throw out Hamilton at third. Hamilton didn’t get a good jump and a strong, low throw almost certainly would have nailed him. Instead, the throw sailed.
“I know if I have a good pitch to throw on, I can throw anyone out,” Stewart said. “It’s a matter of executing. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make good throws tonight.”
It goes without saying that the Reds are a significantly different team when Hamilton gets on base. He entered the game with a .226 batting average but made his presence felt early.
“It’s not fun,” Cole said of dealing with Hamilton.
• The Reds aren’t an especially good team, but they are uniquely talented. They have baseball’s fastest player and its hardest-throwing player in Aroldis Chapman, who will be available for the series finale Thursday after a brief paternity leave.
And then there is Todd Frazier, the man who owns the Pirates. And PNC Park. And Pittsburgh.
Frazier did it again Wednesday, even if it was subtle: With the runner at third and two outs in the first, Cole threw him a slider that Stewart said blew him away with its movement, but Frazier still sliced it into right for an RBI single.
Check out Stewart’s assessment of the Cincinnati lineup: “They’re veteran guys. They work the count. Votto, it seems like he fouls off balls just to push up the pitch count.”
Frazier would finish this game 1 for 5, but he’s still batting .357 — 10 for 28 — with four home runs against the Pirates this season. He has 12 home runs against them over the past three seasons, four more than he has against any other opponent.
“Frazier is the wild card,” Stewart said. “You never know what he’ll do. He hit an absolutely incredible slider. I have no idea how he hit it, but he did.”
The ball Frazier hit was hardly a rocket. It almost hung up long enough for Gregory Polanco to retrieve it. Had he taken a better angle on the ball, he may have caught it.
“That was a pretty darn good pitch,” Hurdle said. “We lay out for it and don’t come up with it.”
• It almost happened again to Polanco. He was called out twice Tuesday for oversliding a base, and the Reds called for a review of his slide in the seventh inning of this one.
Polanco was called safe, but was he?
The replay indicated that his body came off second base for a moment, though it was difficult to determine if he was being tagged at the precise moment of his leg moving.
Polanco is a sensational talent but in some ways is a microcosm of his team. There is so much talent, but sometimes the little things turn into big things. At the same time, the only choice for management is to be patient. Polanco is going through growing pains, quite typical of a young player at this level.