Friday Insider: Neil Walker going, going …

If he wasn't the Pittsburgh Kid I don't even think it 's a real discussion. 31 and a balky back? Extension? I don't see those two phrases being a match.

Food

Boras.

Let's hope it's Johnny Longball.

Looks like he's in good shape. Really pulling for him -- for team's sake. Could be difference between very good team and great.

Nice, DK -- a good laugh.

Speaking of food, veritable sports smorgasbord delivered on silver platter by Friday Insider.

Is he really as poorly liked as you all seem to say? To me, he seems like a perfectly decent guy who has dealt admirably with struggles without drawing attention to himself or publicly complaining. The tone of the criticism of this guy makes me queasy.

I'm kinda with you, J.R. A couple weeks ago Colin Dunlap tweeted this:

"Happy 28th Birthday to Pedro Alvarez - most misunderstood athlete I've ever been around. Great teammate, tireless worker, total family man."

It wasn't so much the tweet that caught my attention, but the fact that multiple teammates, including Man-Of-The-Hour Neil Walker, retweeted it. That seems informative to me.

Part of Pedro's image problem, I believe, is due to the fact that he's on a team where he's surrounded by a lot of outwardly affable guys. It's easy to seem unlikable by comparison.

I'm fascinated where Pedro goes next in his career. Especially if its a NY, Chicago, or LA market where he will literally have ten times the media and fan attention upon him, making much more than is now. Big Bad Dejans questions will pale in comparison to what he will run into, if he goes 3 weeks without a HR in some big baseball towns.

I have no idea if the criticism bothers Pedro. My guess is he doesn't care all that much. Certain elements of it bother me, is all I'm saying'.

Neil Walker.

We've done well with Olli Maata, and do you remember what that little D kid Torey Krug from Michigan did to us in the Boston EC final? Let the young man play!

So basically what you're saying Melissa is that because we can see 3 examples of it working well we should ignore the hundreds of cases where it has failed miserably? I wondering if the feeling will be the same once he makes a rookie mistake or 2 that cost us games in the playoffs?

No, let's just go with all wily vets so we can see double that figure.

Silly.

Can you imagine how good this kid would be if he was playing his natural position at the 4? Such a shame that Khem Birch was a disaster. If we had a capable big man, we'd be in the hunt right now, I believe. Just looked up Khem. Didn't realize he declared for the draft after last year and, of course, went undrafted.

Agree, Young is playing out of position. He is NOT a center. That said, sucks it up, goes to work, does a good job.

This team next year. Young, Artis and Jeter with another year, another year of development. Same with Jones and Newkirk. No Cam Wright which is an addition. JRob as a Senior. If they can find a true big body to play 25 minutes, bang some bodies, get some boards, get some fouls....allow Young more minutes at the 4, this will be a really good team. Oh and this is adding Durand Johnson's and Cam Johnson's long range shooting.

I actually think they may lose someone to a transfer finding minutes for all these wing shooters.

25 years of following Pitt basketball I always find myself saying Can't wait till next year. Only to be disappointed.

We'll see.

25 years means you missed Barry Goheen, bpn8pitt. I'd trade places with you on that basis alone!

Walker doesn't even come close to being "great." He does his job and he does it well, that's it. To give him any sort of long term contract would be extremely misguided. Alen Hanson or Kang will ultimately receive the job, and if one of them proved themselves this year Walker will likely be traded next offseason or during the 2016 season. And with a history of back problems he's essentially a bad investment, even at whatever he's making this year.

He's a top 10 2nd baseman, but not "great". He's had back problems, and as has been said by many, probably won't be at 2nd for much longer, because that's the career trajectory for players like him. He's a great guy and I love him as a fan, but the team is being smart to not spend on him long term, because the numbers just don't support a long term deal for a player like him. They have unproven, but promising, options who will get their turn for a much lower cost. It's smart baseball.

Top 5 2nd baseman offensively

My eye for talent is pretty good. I'll stick with my subjective characterization. Nice try though.

Its because the Pirates dont go all "Jason Kendall" on Neil Walker type players that you have a winning baseball team.

Reading, even assuming that you are correct, and your "good eye for talent" is right, his durability is a significant issue that can't be ignored. He could be the best second baseman in MLB, but if their assessment is that his long term productivity is too uncertain because of durability, then they're making a smart decision to not give him the long-term contract he almost certainly wants.

Scolded Christmas,

Neil Walker has averaged 140 games a season for his 4 complete seasons in Majors. During that time, he has missed games with an appendectomy and a broken hand sustained while hanging in at 2nd to make a tag on an off-target throw by a teammate.

Your questioning of his durability seems tainted. Jeff Kent played a lot of years at 2nd base with less range and poorer hands.

Walker won the Silver Slugger at 2nd last year, but your ilk wants to cede 2nd base job to one of 2 guys who haven't proven themselves above AA-level type competition. And Kang is only 2 years younger than Walker, with no bonifides. Seems overthinking/underthinking.

I've defended Walker for a long time against "it's all because he's the Pittsburgh Kid" stuff. I've always thought at least half held that against him, so it kind of equaled out. This stuff about extending has changed me, though. He has so many talking heads and other media pimping for him it gets a little crazy. (Not referring to posters here).

But, there is a definite over emphasis on this that has to have a lot to do with the fact he's the Pittsburgh Kid. And from everything I've seen written, he does not want to take a "hometown discount." So, while I don't necessarily "applaud" the Pirates for how they are handling this, I certainly see the kind of weird dynamic developing where they are being set up as the "bad guys." To me, the bad guys are the ones who signed Jason Kendall to a long term deal in order to keep him here for the fans.

Secondly, I would hate for a Walker contract to prevent them from keeping Cutch.

Signing Walker would have NO EFFECT on Signing McCutch!!!
Discussion about signing McCutch seems out of place and premature at this time anyway.

Saying that signing Walker would inhibit signing McCutch is like that crazy developed tale that Nate McLouth had to be traded to open up center field for Andrew McCutchen to play Center. Hogwash!!! McLouth could have just moved to left field.

Hysteria prevails!!

Well stated, AW.

Groat

While signing Walker to an extension should not affect other contract choices IF he continues to produce at current levels the odds are not in his favor. Signing Walker to an extension to be a bench player would seriously hamper the Pirates going forward.

As far as the Pirates trading McLouth, the Pirates were smart enough to realize that McLouth had a dream season, he may have been the worst defender to ever win a Gold Glove, they traded him at peak value as the balance of his career proved.

Groat--I agree with you on McLouth. But to say signing Walker to a 50-70 mil (the numbers I've seen floated) would have "NO EFFECT" on signing Cutch to a 100 mil+ deal in a couple of years is what I consider "hysterical" thinking.

Well said, all around, AW.

That is really funny
+1

You're making a strong case to draft OLBs.

Interesting take on Worilds in Fittipaldo's blog from yesterday. I hadn't read that he made such direct criticisms of the regime back in the early days of his career. I don't know his specific personal, non-football reasons for wanting to stay in Pittsburgh, but money usually wins in these situations.

Lot of teams changing to 3-4 this year.

Worilds could be looked at as a bargain compared to other pass rushers and he's still pretty young.

I could go either way. And if the corner isn't there in the first pass rusher is fine with me.

Agree, JAL. Rather spend that money on pitching.

With ya, JAL.

Can we really fault front office for being economically prudent? Love the person and what he's contributed on field and in clubhouse. But start of Neil's free agency in relation to age just a very poor timing confluence -- but no one's fault.

And it's not like he'll be pulling down only $7-8 mill per year. With the hope of a Cutch extension and money in reserve needed to approach other key young components, seems Bucs doing right thing here.

The McCutchen extension talk at this point is simply salad dressing. The Pirates arent going to address a McCutchen extension that is less than club friendly until 2017 at the earliest. At that point McCutchen will be 31 with 2 years remaining on his contract. And thats a long way away.
So what I am saying is that any Walker decision has nothing, ZERO, to do with McCutchen.

As mentioned, $ allocation the point, regardless of player.

I'm not so sure this is even about being economically prudent as it is about making a good baseball decision. I know Kang's a newcomer as well as a wildcard, but if the Pirates front office didn't believe Hanson would be a better player than a mid-30s Walker with his balky back, why would Hanson still be around?

I thought I'd be the only one with this opinion, but it seems many agree on here. I'm with you, JAL.

I thought I'd be the only one with this opinion, but it seems many agree on here. I'm with you, JAL.

In agreement here, too. Unfortunately, being a low-revenue team allows you no room for sentimentality. The Yankees could overpay to keep Jeter around for the rest of his career, and even though his lack of effectiveness helped bring the Yankees down a notch on the field, it's not as if they can't recover again quickly. Meanwhile I'd bet there are some Minnesota fans who wish they had never felt quite so attached to Joe Mauer. Sometimes, you just gotta move on.

Your concern is a real one, bpn. I don't think it was ever Winnik and Jagr, both. If the team was three players away from being a real contender, then your point is even more valid. If you think one more guy like Winnik might get you there, then you have to do it.

From Rutherford's point of view, he might not still be working when the roster gets old. Upper management was hopefully consulted,

Happy they passed on Jagr. After seeing price paid even happier.

Wish the #2 for Winnick was a #3 but unlike Shero's "all in" moves from years past, feel MUCH more confident in GMJR's roster reshaping since his hire.

And don't forget Kasperi Kapanen.

WB: Beautiful thing is have no sense ANY move GMJR has made has been age-driven (GMJR's). Each looks purely hockey-driven -- see need, fill need.

Guy has been a delight. Gets my nod for next week's "Good dude".

Yes and no. Yes, in the fact that they don't have many draft picks. No in the following names: Teddy Blueger, Philip Samuelsson, Kevan Veillieux, Carl Sneep, Michel Gergen, Johannes Salmonsson, Ryan Stone, Ondrej Nemec......am I making a point here? If this list escapes you, these are Penguin 2nd rd draft picks over the past dozen years or so. The longer history to this isn't any more pretty. Once you get past the 1st rd, this is really a crapshoot.

...you know its not out of realm of possibility that they suck at developing young talent.

MAF, Crosby, Malkin...not like the scouts were up all night watching tape deciding on these guys.

It's not hard picking Andrew Luck or Gerritt Cole. Doing your homework on Antonio Brown, Tom Brady is were scouts earn the money.

Again forgive the incompetance but who was the last late pick the Penguins developed into a star?